ARCHIVIO MESSAGGI MAILING LIST CHAMIT Periodo: 08/1998 _______________________________________________________________________________ From: zeewo@tin.it (ZeeWo) To: chamit@blably.com Subject: gocce UVB Date: Mon, 03 Aug 1998 18:44:22 GMT Ciao a tutti! Ho visto dal mio rivenditore un prodotto in gocce della ZooMed, in grado di rimediare alla mancanza di uvb per periodi in cui l'animale non e' esposto alla luce diretta del sole. Pensate che sia una buona soluzione per i c. in vista del periodo invernale, in cui non lo si potra' tenere all'aperto? Grazie! Ciao, ZeeWo _______________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 04 Aug 1998 00:51:12 +0200 To: chamit@blably.com From: Dino Schiff Subject: Re: gocce UVB At 18.44 03/08/98 +0000, you wrote: >Ciao a tutti! > >Ho visto dal mio rivenditore un prodotto in gocce della ZooMed, >in grado di rimediare alla mancanza di uvb per periodi in cui >l'animale non e' esposto alla luce diretta del sole. > >Pensate che sia una buona soluzione per i c. in vista del >periodo invernale, in cui non lo si potra' tenere all'aperto? Bisognerebbe conoscerne la formulazione, probabilmente si tratta di vitamina D3. Non esiste per il camaleonte la possibilitÓ di sopravvivere senza raggi UV-B, siano essi provenienti dal sole, o meno economicamente da lampade tipo la Zoomed reptisun 5.0 o la ESU desert light 7%. Ciao, Dino _______________________________________________________________________________ Date: Wed, 05 Aug 1998 01:43:48 +0200 To: chamit@blably.com From: Andrea Venturini Subject: Re: gocce UVB At 18.44 03/08/98 +0000, you wrote: >Ciao a tutti! > >Ho visto dal mio rivenditore un prodotto in gocce della ZooMed, in >grado di rimediare alla mancanza di uvb per periodi in cui l'animale >non e' esposto alla luce diretta del sole. > >Pensate che sia una buona soluzione per i c. in vista del periodo >invernale, in cui non lo si potra' tenere all'aperto? >Grazie! >Ciao, >ZeeWo Circa due anni fa sulla mailing list americana qualcuno aveva scritto un messaggio praticamente identico al tuo: ------------------------------------------------- I saw these vitamin drops for sale at a local pet shop. Claims to "eliminate the need for expensive UVB lighting systems or any other vitamin D3 supplementation." Just curious as to anyone's thoughts... ------------------------------------------------- Queste furono le risposte: ------------------------------------------------- I wouldn't buy this stuff with someone else's money! I read a report (sorry I can't remember where I saw it) because this product was much cheaper than UV lights. The report said that this product had absolutely no chemicals that simulate UVB lighting and that to the best of his knowledge there is no chemical that would. I will probably post this question on the Mad Scientists Network page and see what a few other physicists and chemists have to say. It would be a great product if it worked. FWIW Drew ------------------------------------------------- Liquid UVB? I just purchased some for my nocturnal species and noticed a formula for diurnal species as well. It says that UVB fluorescents are not needed when you use these drops. Is this true? If this is the case, I was wondering why the nocturnal and diurnal formulas would not be interchangable. The diurnal formula contains 1,500 IU vitamin D3 cholecalcerifol per ml, the nocturnal contains 1,800 IU per ml. One drop per week, followed by subsequent calcium supplementation. I want to be better informed as to tjhe legitimacy of these products before I consider using them on my Chams and other diurnal herps. Any ideas? Michal Hasek ------------------------------------------------- Just my opinion here, but I would return it and get my money back. This is to much of a gamble to take with your chams. Many have discussed this product once before and have all come to the conclusion that this stuff is to good to be true. Be that what it may, its your choice.... This is just my opinion for what its worth (maybe .01) Donovan A. Swafford ------------------------------------------------- The UVB is used by the reptile to internally synthesize D3 and if this can be adequately and properly supplemented with a useable synthetic formulation then it should be fine. The dilemma here is a proper schedule of supplementation. The chameleon will seek out the UVB source (lamp or sun) and bask under it in preference to other light sources. They will also leave the locality of the UVB when they have had enough. A subtle feeling of well-being, or the lack of it, may be the driver of this behavior. The problem with the drops is whether or not you are using too much or too little. This would certainly be dependent on a number of factors to include weight, age, sex and activity level as well as diet. Yikes! I have seen these vitamins advertised for all sorts of reptiles and I personally would not trust the health of my chameleon to something tested and found adequate for iguanas. Dr. H. R. Myler ------------------------------------------------- I've seen these products also. I would imagine that you want to simulate nature as much as possible. At least with the UVB light, the C has the opportunity to convert D3 on it's own. The Calcium with D3 and the drops are in addition to the light, just to ensure that they are getting enough. Just be careful that you do not over supplement. That is the fine balance =) Kathie & Max ------------------------------------------------- Ok, Here's the deal. Vertebrates almost universally use oral D3 or manufacture their own when exposed to UVB, the relative rates of each process (oral absorbtion or cutaneous production) vary from species to species. Is is likely that Chams use both processes, but to what degree is anyones guess - and anyone who tells you they *know* is pullin' yer leg. The cutaneous process has a nifty negative feedback mechanism whereby the vertebrate reduces the levels of vitamin D produced, when adequeate reserves are present - effectively eliminating an overdose. I doubt this is behavioural as some keep alluding to. In every vertebrate studied it appears to be a physiologic process without any behavioural component. I suspect that chams move away from these lights for other reasons - not because they have enough D3. The oral route porvides a precursor that is converted to an active molecule by a temperature dependant step. It is possible to over supplement this material. If we knew exactly how much a cham required (and it wold probably be different for each genus) then we could offer guidelines for oral supplementation that have basis in fact - but we ain't there yet. In summary - Lights are safer. Oral supplementation can be dangerous and the Liquid UVB is very concentrated (the dose considered safe - Anectdote alert Anectdote alert Anectdote alert Anectdote alert - is 100 mg/kg/week - a tiny amount). I would avoid it, stick with the recommendations of more experienced keepers, i.e. minimal D3 dusting, lots of calcium dusting and a good quality UVB bulb regards, Keith Benson DVM _______________________________________________________________________________ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:37:15 +0200 To: chamit@blably.com From: Andrea Venturini Subject: Mercatino News: Anche se probabilmente siete ancora in ferie o il caldo non vi invoglia a stare a casa collegati a Internet, volevamo informarvi che: Ŕ aperto il Mercatino del Camaleonte! Cercate o volete vendere dei camaleonti, attrezzature, libri o altre specie di rettili? Inserite gratuitamente i vostri annunci nel nuovo Mercatino del Camaleonte sul sito dell'ICN. L'indirizzo Ŕ sempre lo stesso: http://www.blably.com/chameleon/ Aspettiamo i vostri annunci! Andrea e Dino _______________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:55:39 +0200 To: chamit@blably.com From: Dino Schiff Subject: Censimento dei Camaleonti Marc Linekar, un appassionato inglese sta curando il primo censimento sui Camaleonti. Partecipiamo tutti riempiendo e spedendo la scheda in allegato con i dati richiesti. Dopo averla compilata cliccate il pulsante "send". Se la cosa vi sembra complicata scrivete i dati richiesti (quanti Camaleonti avete, specie, sesso, ecc. sulla mailing list e Andrea ed io ci occuperemo dell'invio. Per un censimento pi¨ completo indicate anche i dati dei camaleonti dei vostri amici, conoscenti e negozianti (evitando i doppioni!!) che non partecipano personalmente al censimento. Questo =E8 l'indirizzo da cui scaricare eventualmente il modulo: http://www.colonet.com/chameleons/ Dino e Andrea http://www.blably.com/chameleon/ Aspettiamo i vostri annunci sul mercatino _______________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 00:40:11 +0200 To: chamit@blably.com From: Marc Linekar (by way of Dino Schiff ) Subject: Chameleon Survey is GO! OK folks, this is the moment you have all been waiting for (or maybe not). The Cham Survey is up and running as you receive this? It is open for submissions immediately. Anyone with a chameleon can submit there entries from the amateur herper to the comercial breeder/importer. The decision to open it up as wide as possible was a tough decision but i thought it would give truer statistics because 9 times out of 10 if someone on a commercial basis has kept/is keeping/breeding a certain species then it counts as they are=20 either successfull at breeding it or there is a market for that particular species. There may even be a contact list evolve from this, but at the moment all information will be kept anonymous unless i get the permission of the individual to release it. The closing date for entries is midnight GMT on Thursday 20th=20 August 1998. There may be a couple of hours leeway but after that the site will be taken down until the next survey, but this depends on the success of this one. Statistics will be produced and published on my web page (or a web page) and will be free for anyone to display or borrow as long as it remains unaltered. There will be some nice pretty graphs and bar & pie charts (oooh goody i hear you all say - maybe even in colour - stop it i cant take the excitement LOL). Come on then get submitting at http://www.colonet.com/chameleons/ Many thanks go to Rick White for his computer expertise and input, without whom this would have been much harder than it already has been. Sticky Tongue Farms for the donation of the piccie (we've given him a link as a thank you). Lyle Puente for his input and support. And everyone for their support and offers of help. -- Marc Linekar (Oxford, England) http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/mark.l ICQ# 7915554 _______________________________________________________________________________ CHAMIT: the Italian Chameleon Network Mailing List Web Site: http://www.camaleonte.net List Managers: Andrea Venturini, Dino Schiff I'ICN non si assume responsabilitÓ per il contenuto dei messaggi